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	<title>Comments on: Bored to code in Flex 2</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.neatfilm.com/2007/09/07/bored-to-code-in-flex-2/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.neatfilm.com/2007/09/07/bored-to-code-in-flex-2/</link>
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		<title>By: judah</title>
		<link>http://www.neatfilm.com/2007/09/07/bored-to-code-in-flex-2/comment-page-1/#comment-592</link>
		<dc:creator>judah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2007 04:34:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatfilm.com/2007/09/07/bored-to-code-in-flex-2/#comment-592</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Also, www.flexexamples.com is a great new resource for Flex examples. Check that and the blogroll on that site. Also check out flex.org and chatopica.com/topics/flex are beginnings of the Flex community. Give it time...&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, <a href="http://www.flexexamples.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.flexexamples.com</a> is a great new resource for Flex examples. Check that and the blogroll on that site. Also check out flex.org and chatopica.com/topics/flex are beginnings of the Flex community. Give it time&#8230;</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: judah</title>
		<link>http://www.neatfilm.com/2007/09/07/bored-to-code-in-flex-2/comment-page-1/#comment-591</link>
		<dc:creator>judah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2007 04:27:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatfilm.com/2007/09/07/bored-to-code-in-flex-2/#comment-591</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Want to make FB2 more interesting? Press CTRL + O in code view. Also, try pressing CTRL + clicking on any id or component.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;But yes, the new features in FB 3 makes Flex Builder 3 more exciting. I have been using FB3 beta for a few projects now. Did you know you can download the Flex Builder 3 beta now off Adobe labs?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I still get the same &quot;I can build anything&quot; you mention feeling you get in Flash but about Flex. I think it has to do with that I know how to do it in Flex. But I also agree that it is harder to do design changes like we did in Flash. I dont feel as much creativey freedom in that respect. It does not make design as easy. I have to say just because Flash has creative drawing edge to it does not mean Flex cannot have one. In fact, Fireworks, Photoshop, Illustrator, etc all have created native drawing tools. Maybe this could be a feature or article you can describe in more detail?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;BTW, the design features are something they are working on more tightly integrating in FB3. If you haven&#039;t yet please describe what you like and want and submit an enhancement at http://bugs.adobe.com/flex.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Want to make FB2 more interesting? Press CTRL + O in code view. Also, try pressing CTRL + clicking on any id or component.</p>

<p>But yes, the new features in FB 3 makes Flex Builder 3 more exciting. I have been using FB3 beta for a few projects now. Did you know you can download the Flex Builder 3 beta now off Adobe labs?</p>

<p>I still get the same &#8220;I can build anything&#8221; you mention feeling you get in Flash but about Flex. I think it has to do with that I know how to do it in Flex. But I also agree that it is harder to do design changes like we did in Flash. I dont feel as much creativey freedom in that respect. It does not make design as easy. I have to say just because Flash has creative drawing edge to it does not mean Flex cannot have one. In fact, Fireworks, Photoshop, Illustrator, etc all have created native drawing tools. Maybe this could be a feature or article you can describe in more detail?</p>

<p>BTW, the design features are something they are working on more tightly integrating in FB3. If you haven&#8217;t yet please describe what you like and want and submit an enhancement at <a href="http://bugs.adobe.com/flex" rel="nofollow">http://bugs.adobe.com/flex</a>.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Eric de Groot</title>
		<link>http://www.neatfilm.com/2007/09/07/bored-to-code-in-flex-2/comment-page-1/#comment-573</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric de Groot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Sep 2007 17:11:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatfilm.com/2007/09/07/bored-to-code-in-flex-2/#comment-573</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Flex and Flex Builder are all about accessibility.  You can do it all in Flash, but that would require significantly more effort and understanding of the Flash way of doing things.  From traditional programmers perspective, Flash is a mess.  Any Java/C++/whatever developer using Eclipse can jump right into Flex Builder and immediately start producing results.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Flex and Flex Builder are all about accessibility.  You can do it all in Flash, but that would require significantly more effort and understanding of the Flash way of doing things.  From traditional programmers perspective, Flash is a mess.  Any Java/C++/whatever developer using Eclipse can jump right into Flex Builder and immediately start producing results.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Darth Sidious</title>
		<link>http://www.neatfilm.com/2007/09/07/bored-to-code-in-flex-2/comment-page-1/#comment-567</link>
		<dc:creator>Darth Sidious</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2007 22:35:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatfilm.com/2007/09/07/bored-to-code-in-flex-2/#comment-567</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hey George, I completely understand your perspective. Not every tool is going to be a fit for everyone, that&#039;s for sure. The original motivation for Flex was that traditional developers found it way too time consuming to build applications in Flash; the learning curve is massive, the developing off of a time line is a bizarre approach.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;That was my case. I needed to build a rich experience, beyond what HTML/JS/DHTML was going to allow. So I started trying to learn Flash, and it just wasn&#039;t happening.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;You&#039;re right, you don&#039;t have the level of freedom that you have as in Flash. And that&#039;s what traditional developers want - their goal is to make business applications. Where as Flash Designers tend to do everything but a business application. You&#039;ll notice that most Flex developers don&#039;t even bother to change the style much of a Flex app, that&#039;s a low priority, facilitating the business workflow is top priority.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;So ya, Flex still is an early product. Flex 1.5 was very niche; the price was ridiculous, and a lot of limitations. Flex 2 made the technology more mainstream and accessible to all. And Flex 3 continues to build upon that momentum.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;For example, there&#039;s only one product in the known universe that allows you to automate functionality testing (Mecury&#039;s Quick Test Pro, an extremely expensive product).&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;BUT... that&#039;s when it&#039;s fun! E.g, what would your experience have been with Flash V1? Yet, Flash grew to something amazing. I think it&#039;s the same thing with Flex, and it&#039;s an amazing opportunity to get in on a new technology with the community is small. You have the ability to influence many through blogging about examples, writing magazine articles, etc... Everyone else is also at the ground floor.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;But if you&#039;re able to achieve the same or better end result in the same or less time just using pure Flash...by all means, it doesn&#039;t make sense to use Flex.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey George, I completely understand your perspective. Not every tool is going to be a fit for everyone, that&#8217;s for sure. The original motivation for Flex was that traditional developers found it way too time consuming to build applications in Flash; the learning curve is massive, the developing off of a time line is a bizarre approach.</p>

<p>That was my case. I needed to build a rich experience, beyond what HTML/JS/DHTML was going to allow. So I started trying to learn Flash, and it just wasn&#8217;t happening.</p>

<p>You&#8217;re right, you don&#8217;t have the level of freedom that you have as in Flash. And that&#8217;s what traditional developers want &#8211; their goal is to make business applications. Where as Flash Designers tend to do everything but a business application. You&#8217;ll notice that most Flex developers don&#8217;t even bother to change the style much of a Flex app, that&#8217;s a low priority, facilitating the business workflow is top priority.</p>

<p>So ya, Flex still is an early product. Flex 1.5 was very niche; the price was ridiculous, and a lot of limitations. Flex 2 made the technology more mainstream and accessible to all. And Flex 3 continues to build upon that momentum.</p>

<p>For example, there&#8217;s only one product in the known universe that allows you to automate functionality testing (Mecury&#8217;s Quick Test Pro, an extremely expensive product).</p>

<p>BUT&#8230; that&#8217;s when it&#8217;s fun! E.g, what would your experience have been with Flash V1? Yet, Flash grew to something amazing. I think it&#8217;s the same thing with Flex, and it&#8217;s an amazing opportunity to get in on a new technology with the community is small. You have the ability to influence many through blogging about examples, writing magazine articles, etc&#8230; Everyone else is also at the ground floor.</p>

<p>But if you&#8217;re able to achieve the same or better end result in the same or less time just using pure Flash&#8230;by all means, it doesn&#8217;t make sense to use Flex.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: george</title>
		<link>http://www.neatfilm.com/2007/09/07/bored-to-code-in-flex-2/comment-page-1/#comment-563</link>
		<dc:creator>george</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2007 18:44:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatfilm.com/2007/09/07/bored-to-code-in-flex-2/#comment-563</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks for comments.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Bill,&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Actually the code-completion of Flex builder 2 is not so friendly even comparing with the free FlashDevelop editor. I coded AS3 classes in FlashDevelop for Flash CS3 projects before using Flex Builder 2, quite easy and fast coding than FB2 indeed. Only when I need to find bugs, I will open that class file in Flash CS3 to set breakpoints and tracking debug informations. FlashDevelop worked quite well with Flash projects together with Flash CS3. The only problem is FD not good enough to support Flex 2 projects, maybe they wouldn&#039;t do that to avoid direct competition with FB2.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;With FB2 it&#039;s painful for me because I was coded in FD and feel inconvenient here and there. I still don&#039;t know how to make word wrap automatically and have to use virtual word wrap for each file I opened, have to type Alt-Tab and Tab quite often here and there, and code-completion wouldn&#039;t work until link that class/component into the project (FD will do that automatically for you).&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for comments.</p>

<p>Bill,</p>

<p>Actually the code-completion of Flex builder 2 is not so friendly even comparing with the free FlashDevelop editor. I coded AS3 classes in FlashDevelop for Flash CS3 projects before using Flex Builder 2, quite easy and fast coding than FB2 indeed. Only when I need to find bugs, I will open that class file in Flash CS3 to set breakpoints and tracking debug informations. FlashDevelop worked quite well with Flash projects together with Flash CS3. The only problem is FD not good enough to support Flex 2 projects, maybe they wouldn&#8217;t do that to avoid direct competition with FB2.</p>

<p>With FB2 it&#8217;s painful for me because I was coded in FD and feel inconvenient here and there. I still don&#8217;t know how to make word wrap automatically and have to use virtual word wrap for each file I opened, have to type Alt-Tab and Tab quite often here and there, and code-completion wouldn&#8217;t work until link that class/component into the project (FD will do that automatically for you).</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://www.neatfilm.com/2007/09/07/bored-to-code-in-flex-2/comment-page-1/#comment-561</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2007 14:07:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatfilm.com/2007/09/07/bored-to-code-in-flex-2/#comment-561</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I agree with your sentiments, myself coming from a Flash background. The Flash IDE seems to inspire a much more productive &quot;free&quot; and &quot;creative&quot; work flow.
In the Flash IDE I had the feeling that I could build &quot;anything&quot; - and quickly.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The Flex IDE and framework is quite a bit more rigid - it takes a lot of effort to make something that doesn&#039;t look like the default Flex style with a few font and color changes. I love the data-connection and handling capabilities of Flex, as well as the wonderful code-completion and class-discovering features. I wish the Flash IDE had these too.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I really hope the Flash/Flex Designer/Developer workflow improves in Flex 3 - not just for Developers handing off to Designers, but for those of us Devigners out there who feel somewhat neutered by the current state of things.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with your sentiments, myself coming from a Flash background. The Flash IDE seems to inspire a much more productive &#8220;free&#8221; and &#8220;creative&#8221; work flow.
In the Flash IDE I had the feeling that I could build &#8220;anything&#8221; &#8211; and quickly.</p>

<p>The Flex IDE and framework is quite a bit more rigid &#8211; it takes a lot of effort to make something that doesn&#8217;t look like the default Flex style with a few font and color changes. I love the data-connection and handling capabilities of Flex, as well as the wonderful code-completion and class-discovering features. I wish the Flash IDE had these too.</p>

<p>I really hope the Flash/Flex Designer/Developer workflow improves in Flex 3 &#8211; not just for Developers handing off to Designers, but for those of us Devigners out there who feel somewhat neutered by the current state of things.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Dater</title>
		<link>http://www.neatfilm.com/2007/09/07/bored-to-code-in-flex-2/comment-page-1/#comment-559</link>
		<dc:creator>Dater</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2007 11:18:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatfilm.com/2007/09/07/bored-to-code-in-flex-2/#comment-559</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;thanks for post ...&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks for post &#8230;</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Martijn</title>
		<link>http://www.neatfilm.com/2007/09/07/bored-to-code-in-flex-2/comment-page-1/#comment-557</link>
		<dc:creator>Martijn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2007 10:50:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neatfilm.com/2007/09/07/bored-to-code-in-flex-2/#comment-557</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I&#039;m a Flash developer who has switched to Flex a few months ago. I&#039;m also coding Java so maybe that&#039;s the reason I love Flex. The biggest trouble with Flex is the documentation, it&#039;s not clear (enough) about the difference between the framework and the Flash Player functionality. Although I always use the framework as a base for a project I sometimes have trouble with the documentation.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;In Flash you have one big advantage and one big disadvantage:
- Advantage: You can draw!
- Disadvantage: The FLA is part of the structure&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;You have to look at Flex as a Application development IDE and Flash as a &quot;design a website&quot; IDE, although you can do both in both applications.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a Flash developer who has switched to Flex a few months ago. I&#8217;m also coding Java so maybe that&#8217;s the reason I love Flex. The biggest trouble with Flex is the documentation, it&#8217;s not clear (enough) about the difference between the framework and the Flash Player functionality. Although I always use the framework as a base for a project I sometimes have trouble with the documentation.</p>

<p>In Flash you have one big advantage and one big disadvantage:
- Advantage: You can draw!
- Disadvantage: The FLA is part of the structure</p>

<p>You have to look at Flex as a Application development IDE and Flash as a &#8220;design a website&#8221; IDE, although you can do both in both applications.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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